Bob McChesney has evolved from a primarily self-taught student of the trombone into a world-renowned soloist and authority on trombone pedagogy. His trademarks as a trombone soloist are lightning-fast technique, the beauty of his sound, and his emotional connection to the music. Aside from his solo career, McChesney has been a fixture in the Los Angeles recording studios, where he has enjoyed performing with studio orchestras on hundreds of films and television shows. He can also be heard on CDs for Barbra Streisand, Michael Bublé, Randy Newman, Daft Punk, Shakira, Natalie Cole, Chicago, and on such Grammy-winning CDs as Ray Charles’ GENIUS LOVES COMPANY, Diana Krall’s WHEN I LOOK IN YOUR EYES, and Arturo Sandoval’s DEAR DIZ, where he was a featured soloist.

In 2000, McChesney co-produced with the legendary composer and entertainer Steve Allen NO LAUGHING MATTER—THE BOB MCCHESNEY QUARTET PLAYS STEVE ALLEN. His most recent CD as leader and producer, CHEZ SEZ, features Bob Mintzer, Larry Goldings, Darek Oles, and Bill Stewart and has received high praise.

Bob is a welcomed guest artist, educator, and clinician all over the U.S. and Canada. I conversed with him shortly after hosting him at Virginia Commonwealth University.

Bob rehearses with the Virginia Commonwealth University Jazz Orchestra I. photo credit: Antonio J. García

Getting Started

AG: I understand that you were a business major in college, and in some ways a self-taught musician.

BM: I didn’t study privately until after college graduation, though I started playing the trombone in fourth grade in my public elementary school music program in Lutherville, Maryland, a suburb of Baltimore. I had some initial lessons from my elementary band director and participated in the typical groups: elementary and junior high concert bands, then high school concert band and jazz “stage” band. Having been mostly self-taught during those developmental years, I stumbled on to a way of tonguing and slurring that enabled me to play very fast and smooth. At the time, I was really not aware of how I did it; but I remember that when I wanted to, I could play really fast—having no idea that I was doing things differently.

At SUNY Fredonia in upstate New York I was a business major but fortunate enough to play in the college jazz ensemble. I practiced a lot and was able to absorb a lot of information from the music majors. My fellow college trombone players pointed out to me that they thought I was “doodle-tonguing,” a term I had never heard before. Had I been working with a private teacher on traditional techniques, I probably would not have pursued “doodling” or might even have been discouraged from using it at all.

After graduating from college, I took the leap to pursue a music career and decided to take private lessons, initially for few months with John Melick of the Baltimore Symphony. When some college friends of mine moved to Los Angeles, I followed them and studied with a great teacher, Roy Main, who really helped refine my chops. I also got together with Uan Racey, Ralph Sauer, Jim Miller, and a few jazz saxophone players.

Doodling

AG: How is doodle-tonguing helpful to trombonists?

BM: As we all know, the trombone is a fantastic instrument capable of great expression, power, and beauty. However, its slide makes quick and clean legato-articulations more difficult than they are with such other instruments as the trumpet or saxophone. Slurring across a partial-series is a fine articulation if crossing partials; but otherwise, in order to avoid smearing, trombonists must articulate every note; and single-tonguing is not fast enough for many situations. Standard double-tonguing is fast but can sound harsh and is less suitable for legato playing.

Another difficulty (though less important) is that because the slide has to be moved quickly over a significant distance, excessive motion of the forearm transfers motion to the head and embouchure and disrupts legato. The wrist and fingers must be extended and retracted to aid in minimizing this forearm movement. A certain level of coordination is required for these movements, possibly a greater level than is required for other instruments.

The challenge for us as trombonists is to articulate well enough so that the music we express is communicated to the listener as clearly as possible. Whether written or improvised, playing legato requires delivering a succession of notes with matched articulations. If articulations are not evenly matched, some notes may be indistinguishable; and the audience will have to mentally work harder to imagine what is being played—as if some words within a Shakespearian soliloquy had been mumbled or misunderstood.

Used in combination with reasonably good slide technique, the doodle-tongue technique makes possible fast speed, smoothness, clarity, and uniform note-transitions, all at the same time. And contrary to one belief, the technique can be utilized at all volume levels, from very loud to very soft. Nor is it a simple repetition of a pattern of syllables played over and over: because natural downward-slurs are incorporated into the technique to maximize clarity, the sequence of syllables varies considerably and is dependent upon the partial-structure and rhythm of the music played. This may sound complicated; but once the proper articulations are practiced, execution can be quite natural. I believe anyone can be taught to do the technique, as long as they are physically able to pronounce the key syllable “ul ” (like the second syllable in the word “huddle”).

Some of my colleagues encouraged me to write down the tonguing technique. So in the early 1990s, I began to thoroughly analyze it for the first time; and in 1992 Doodle Studies and Etudes for Trombone was published.

Influences

AG: Do you consider your playing to be influenced by any specific predecessors on the instrument?

BM: No, not really. While I have always admired the jazz trombone greats, I have been more influenced by players of other instruments, specifically Freddie Hubbard, Stanley Turrentine, Chick Corea, and Dexter Gordon, to name just a few. I always wanted to sound like Freddie, only on the trombone. The sassy way he played, his emotional spirit, and his time and harmonic language sounded very special to me.

In a greater way, all instrumentalists of all styles are influences. In high school, I listened to guitarist Carlos Santana and tried to emulate his organic lines. I transcribed Turrentine’s playing, too. Being a musician, I am constantly influenced by all kinds of music and players. It’s what inspires me to try to play new ideas. I think that all of us should think of ourselves as musicians first and players of our individual instruments second. Of course, we have to work on the techniques specific to our own instrument, but not in a way that limits us. The goal for me each day is to be a better musician, and I encourage my students to listen to all kinds of music performed on all instruments.

AG: Having spent a good deal of your career in the personal and professional company of your vocalist-wife, Calabria Foti, have you found that her approach to the music influences your playing? And has she identified influences from you?

BM: Yes, I do think that she has had an influence on my playing. In addition to her jazz singing, Calabria is a classically trained violinist and studio musician, very knowledgeable about many styles of music. So she has opened my ears to some wonderful music that I wouldn’t have known without her. As a singer, she has a great approach to using vibrato: delaying it just the right amount, contrasting with straight tones, varying the depth, etc. I like to use that in my playing. Her phrasing and her connection to the lyric also translate well to the horn. She is also a wonderful scat-singer, and I would like to think she got some of that from listening to me!

And as a personal aside, Tony, you and I are probably the only trombonists in the world we know of who are married to singers whose fathers are prominent trombonists. Your wife Mary’s father is the great trombonist Al Hermann; and Calabria’s father is Richard Fote, a great trombonist/author/educator and former student of Emory Remington. There must be something about the trombone!

AG: Well, when I found this lovely woman who had not only grown up with the trombone but also still liked it, I knew I wanted a second date!

Pedagogy

AG: You’ve been teaching jazz trombone for a long time. What have you found are the most challenging issues for students, and how do you go about addressing them?

BM: I have always had pretty consistent success working with students on technique (range, slurring, tone, tonguing, etc.) and teaching scales, jazz theory, and harmonic patterns. The most challenging issue for me, however, is to impart musicianship: to get students to express themselves on their instrument in a way that is consistently pleasing to hear. I want them to learn to improvise using their own ideas; but I want their improvisations to be logical, with their thoughts connected together. I want them to outline chords, create lines that connect the chords together in a musical way, create recognizable and recurring shapes, use interesting and varied harmony, balance different elements, and more.

I do have a few different approaches that seem to help. One is to play and improvise with the student, trading back and forth, usually with a backing track or a metronome. When it’s my turn to play, I won’t just freely solo: I try to alter my playing to demonstrate what I perceive the student needs more of in his or her soloing. If the student is not playing very many eighth-notes, I may play more of those; if the student is playing “too busy,” I might demonstrate using a lot of space; or I may emphasize clear chord-outlining where the student may be having trouble with a certain chord or chord resolution. The student picks up on this and attempts to make adjustments; and over time, this seems to help.

The other approach I like is to break things down into the smallest concept possible, whether regarding technique or musicality. For musicality, I may have a student improvise a couple of phrases, stop; and we’ll discuss how the two phrases were related or unrelated. I’ll ask, “Did the two phrases use the same rhythm, have the same shape? Were they completely different? Would an audience be able to follow that thinking? Was what you played in the second phrase predictable or a complete surprise to the listener?” I might ask them how many times they think they could repeat the idea before it would sound unmusical to them.

We’ll share that dialogue, then go back to playing some more phrases and discuss those. While students may do this kind of analysis when reviewing a solo transcription of another artist, I try to get them to do it with their own playing, prodding them to look at how their playing is affecting the listener.

AG: What do you focus on when you find time to practice: more improv, more technique, or something else?

BM: For warm-ups and technical exercises, I have a set routine that I do every day, taking about 15 minutes. Some of the technical exercises vary, but they are mostly the same each day. This helps my chops stay more consistent day to day, week to week, whether I have been playing hard or have had a very light week. All of the warm-ups and technical exercises that I do are presented in my Technical Studies for Trombone.

For years, after the warm-up/technical stuff, I would work daily on a classical etude: Bach, Kopprasch Studies, Aaron Harris’ Advanced Studies for Trumpet, Blazevich, and the like. I don’t do that as regularly now but still work something up occasionally. I think working on classical etudes helps my jazz—besides helping everything in general.

For jazz practicing, I really enjoy working on new harmonic material: scales, patterns, sequences, and more. I think it is very important to address new material, not just play things that are familiar and comfortable.

Here is how I go about practicing jazz: I will choose a concept—a scale pattern, a chord arpeggio, a lick, a triad-pair, an odd-meter fragment, whatever—and commit myself to mastering it. The concept may be something I heard and transcribed or maybe something that was shown to me by a colleague. For learning purposes I will begin with small fragments of the pattern or concept, then over time expand it, then work in every key, faster and faster. When I have learned to play the pattern and can do so without any conscious effort, then I have achieved mastery.

I try not to work on more than one concept at a time, and I try to stay with it until I really have it down. I may work on it for a week or for three months or more, whatever it takes to reach mastery. Regarding doodle-tonguing: while I don’t consciously think about articulation when learning new material, I subconsciously “discover” the proper syllables and slurs for a pattern during the process of learning of the notes; and those syllable-assignments become forever “married” to the pattern.

My next step is to apply the newly learned concept to a practical playing situation: a tune or chord progression. I will play through the chosen tune over and over and “force” the new concept I just mastered into the soloing wherever it might fit harmonically. It may take many months or longer before the new concept will appear naturally in the performance of an improvised solo, without forethought; but it will eventually. I typically use only fragments of a pattern or concept in a solo.

Many harmonic techniques need to be learned this way, as “ear-playing” alone is not usually adequate to advance one’s playing to the next level.

Equipment

AG: What are you playing on these days?

BM: For commercial and jazz gigs I play a Bach Stradivarius Model 12. It has a brass outer slide that has been lightened (outer sleeves removed and a thinner hand-brace installed). I have a few different bell sections and slide sections that I like in .500 bore. I also have model 16M and model 8 slide-sections that I use on occasion. I like that I can “steer” the Bach horns and vary the tone color quite a bit. Bach makes a very musical horn.

I play a Bach 7C mouthpiece with a threaded 11C rim that Bob Reeves made for me. The rim is a bit rounder and more comfortable for me than the rims on the newer 7Cs.

For orchestral studio dates I play either a Bach 42B or Conn 88H with a Bach 5GL mouthpiece. I play a Bach 50B bass trombone and have a few different mouthpieces I like for it: the Warburton 1 1/2G, George Roberts Signature NY, or a Bach 1 1/2G.

Career Mix

AG: We hear a lot about the decline of the live-musician element of the film- and TV-score industry. Do those calls still make up a significant part of your professional life?

BM: Ever since I can remember, the conversation has been about the decline of music and the difficulty for musicians to make a living. I am extremely fortunate to have a career that includes concertizing as an artist, teaching, and working as a sideman. Recording on TV shows, records, and films is still significant for me; but those are only part of my career. Whereas in the heyday of TV and radio every show had a decent-sized orchestra playing in the background, now, unfortunately, most TV scores are synthesizers recorded in someone’s bedroom. Fortunately there are some people in the industry who realize the artistic value of having a real orchestra to enhance the entertainment, and luckily those are the folks I get to work for.

AG: Do you feel that a music career is still something a young jazz trombonist should pursue, or is it time to get a non-music job to pay the rent?

BM: Playing music, any music, is always dicey as a career. A career in any sector of the arts can be a very tenuous thing—even back in the days of Tommy Dorsey. But occasionally I offer career advice and tell my students that want to make it professionally as players to hang in there, be diversified in what they can offer, and be ready for the long haul. I recommend that they develop musical and musical-related skills such as arranging, music preparation, teaching, recording-engineering, instrument repair, and more until more playing opportunities come along.

AG: Would you do anything differently if you had a second time around as a younger musician-self? Or put another way, what advice would you have for the next round of players?

BM: Well, if I had a second chance, I would begin recording CDs at a much earlier age. When I was younger, I had much more self-doubt; and at the same time much of my day was spent pursuing sideman-jobs to pay the bills. I urge all my students to have the courage to start recording creative projects early on.

Also, if I could do it again, I might be a little more aggressive about letting people know about me. For years I would just let my professionalism speak for itself and did not hustle very hard; and because of that, it took a much longer time to get noticed. The world is so filled with people who are good at “getting the job” but maybe not as good at music, and jobs and opportunities tend to go to the people who are hustling. So what I tell my students now is that they not only have to be good musicians, they have to be good at marketing, too.

AG: Your YouTube videos demonstrating your technique and craft have created quite a buzz in the trombone community over the years. Have you been surprised by what that exposure has generated for you in the music world?

BM: It inspires me to know there are so many musicians out there interested in what I’m doing and that they are striving to do the same thing. It makes me happy that through the power of the Internet I can connect so easily with players all over the world. We are one big community, and I am grateful that this pathway exists and that I’ve been able to reach out.

I am surprised, however, that a classical piece—my rendition of The Carnival of Venice—has received more hits (about one million to date) than any of my jazz videos. As a jazz player, all the attention to the classical piece pleases me to no end; but I am a little mystified that the jazz videos get fewer hits—as, to me, jazz is the greater challenge!

Arranging

AG: You’ve written some lovely arrangements. The string writing you’ve brought to your wife Calabria Foti’s albums is particularly striking. Do you have specific influences from other writers, and how did you gain your skills in this area?

BM: Thank you very much. I have always enjoyed listening to orchestral jazz arrangements. Growing up, my father was always playing Sinatra; so Nelson Riddle and Gordon Jenkins arrangements have always been in my head. Also, Calabria has exposed me to a lot of fantastic arrangements for singers: the works of Jeremy Lubbock, Johnny Mandel, and Jorge Calandrelli have been a big inspiration, along with many others.

As an arranger, again, I am basically a “do-it-yourself-er.” I have spent time studying Nelson Riddle and Jorge Calandrelli scores. With a bit of trial and error, I discovered the importance of writing a vocal arrangement that enhances and serves the vocal, not just writing something that sounds hip. If any material in my arrangement doesn’t support the melody, I’ll change it or take it out. I do try to write something I hope makes the song more beautiful.

The Future

AG: What’s next for you? Any particular projects you’re looking forward to?

BM: Yes, I’ve been in the studio with pianist Bill Cunliffe, drummer Vinnie Colaiuta, and bassist Kevin Axt recording a couple of CDs to be released in 2018. I’m producing another CD for Calabria, with full orchestra (and the expected jazz trombone solos, of course!) to be released sometime in 2018. I also plan more etude and method books.

AG: Bob, thank you for sharing with us.

BM: Tony, I thank you and the ITA so much for the opportunity to share my thoughts. My best to you, your students at VCU, and all the ITA membership!

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(Also see the related transcription/analysis "Bob McChesney's solo on 'Chez Sez.'")

Web Site

<www.bobmcchesney.com>

Suggested Discography

AS A LEADER:

CHEZ SEZ (MoCo Jazz) 2015, featuring Larry Goldings, Darek Oles, Bill Stewart, and Bob Mintzer

THE BEST OF BOB MCCHESNEY (MoCo Jazz) 2014, including “The Carnival of Venice”

NO LAUGHING MATTER–THE BOB MCCHESNEY QUARTET PLAYS THE MUSIC OF STEVE ALLEN (Summit) 1999, with Matt Harris, Trey Henry, and Dick Weller

AS A SIDEMAN & SOLOIST:

Dave Slonaker/INTRADA (Origin 82651) 2014

Arturo Sandoval/DEAR DIZ (Concord Jazz CJA-33020-02) 2012

Mark Winkler/THE COMPANY I KEEP (Café Pacific CPCD10250) 2017

George Stone/THE REAL DEAL (no label) 2010

Courtney Fortune/SPEAK LOVE (Origin Records 82541) 2009

Chris Walden/HOME OF MY HEART (Origin 82439) 2005

Carl Saunders/BEBOP BIG BAND (Sea Breeze Jazz SB-2118) 2002

Randy Waldman/UNREEL (Concord CCD-4967-2) 2001

Bob Florence/SERENDIPITY 18 (MAMA Records MMF 1025) 1998

AS AN ARRANGER/PRODUCER/SOLOIST FOR CALABRIA FOTI:

HOME (MoCo Jazz) to be released in 2018

IN THE STILL OF THE NIGHT (MoCo Jazz) 2017

LET’S FALL IN LOVE (Foti, featuring Seth MacFarlane, MoCo Jazz) 2014

(producer/co-arranger with Chris Walden)

A LOVELY WAY TO SPEND AN EVENING (MoCo Jazz) 2007

WHEN A WOMAN LOVES A MAN (MoCo Jazz) 2005

Books

Bob McChesney’s Jazz Solo Transcriptions (by Rob Egerton)

Doodle Studies and Etudes (for slide trombone)

Jazz Etudes and Duets (for all instruments)

Technical Studies for Trombone

YouTube Videos

(Use the links or simply search on the web.)

“Ballads and Bossas–Part 1” <www.youtube.com/watch?v=WG8Yo7IpA5s>

“Ballads and Bossas–Part 2” <www.youtube.com/watch?v=YckgcQfLwes>

“Bob Discusses Technical Studies for Trombone”–scale without moving the slide <www.youtube.com/watch?v=qChtz-3LhT0>

“Chez Sez”–title track from CHEZ SEZ <www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG2nlLaW_eM>

“Do It Again” string arrangement with trombone solo–view score <www.youtube.com/watch?v=frRJAhTRP3c>

“I Love You” for 4 Trombones–view score <www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICVJO-t08ME>

“In Concert” EPK <www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLR7oxqlYo0>

“Interview: Larry Goldings and Bob: Chez Sez” <www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCkBMyNIHjM>

 “Live at Vitello’s–solo highlights” <www.youtube.com/watch?v=nroSqjEkmE0>

“Look At Me”–from Jazz Etudes and Duets <www.youtube.com/watch?v=56AKl4uHKjA>

“Meet Me Where They Play the Blues”–Guitar Hero Version <www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1yLDVdTSLo>

“Ms. Smith”–from Jazz Etudes and Duets <www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuzk72KCNpc>

“The Carnival of Venice” <www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV_uKxGPF_I>

“Things You Need”–from Jazz Etudes and Duets <www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cBB12ckrlM>

“With Arturo Sandoval”–from Jazz Etudes and Duets <www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZja9rhUqyc>

“With Tom Scott”–from Jazz Etudes and Duets <www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1JahLLqweE>

“With Dick Nash”–from 28 Vignettes for Two Trombones <www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzzGlzuvqF8>

“With Alex Iles”–from 28 Vignettes for Two Trombones <www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysb4HCHc5Rg>

“With Bill Watrous”–from 28 Vignettes for Two Trombones <www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdJmf4sSiYg>

“Yesterdays” from CHEZ SEZ <www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFISPYCC7Wo>

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